Complaints received against Mark Mills

If you have questions about the complaint, please
contact the person who filed it.

February 1998
Complaint filed by:  JRance@compuserve.com

The specifics of my problem with Mark Mills alias Toysnmore, et al is the fact that he is a thief. He offered to sell me a dark Stripes in Feb. '98 for $150.00 + ship/ins. He received his money in a timely manner and never sent my beanie. He had so many excuses that I have a file approximately 1 1/2" thick of his excuses and other peoples complaints against him.  I spoke with a Detective Peterson with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Fraud Division and learned that he has stolen between 15,000 and 20,000 dollars from people on bogus beanie deals.  I detailed him on the bad traders list along with his phone and address.

On 2-10-98, I bid on a Dark Stripes on Ebay, I was just below the first bidder. I got an E-mail from MarkRMills, that night, he said he had one and would sell it to me for the same price. I sent the money order and never received the Dark Stripes. I have all my correspondence and his.

July 1998
Complaint filed by:  ETrialsMud@aol.com

EVERYONE! beware of Mark Mills! He is very pursuasive, but sells fakes. I have also contacted many other people that have dealt with him, and they told the same stories. when hes a buyer, he claims he doesn't get the items, and when hes a seller, he tricks you into thinking everything is a-ok. please visit my website: members.aol.com/etrialsmud/index.html it gives info on what to do if YOU are scammed. If you have dealt with Mark Mills from Las Vegas, PLEASE either email me, or write in my guest book how the deal went... if it was bad... OR good!

Update: Note from Caution list - ETrialsMud@aol.com received a full refund from Mr. Mills.


Below is the response from Mark Mills in regards to the complaint above. Due to his complaints to Inside the Web about never posting any of his email addresses or his name on the message board again, or they will shut it down, I can not post it there.

Message Board Response - July 16, 1998
Posted by: toysnmore@worldnet.att.net

Reader's, Ms. Coakley has claimed I cheated by sending her fake beanies. What Ms Coakley left out of her message was the fact that the Beanies she purchased were listed as being fakes.. I can provide anyone who wants, information as to where the Auction was inwhich she purchased from. Ms Coakley at first, wrote me saying she was not sure what the term "Faux" meant. She also added that a buddy told her it meant fake, a I confirmed to her by e-mail. After this, Ms Coakley continued to bid on my items, I was selling them as knwon fakes which, I got burned with before, I also had listed in one of the auctions that I would not sell to those considering passing them off as real and, that if I learned they did, I would aid in the prosecution of them. My intent was to get this item into a dealers hands, so they could perhaps use it at shows to make others aware of the fakes around,. I have been called so many things on this site and, while I was late before in shipments, I did clear my matters up. I have NEVER sold a fake item to ANYONE aside from this case, and, I do believe this is an exception since I DID advise the bidder's it was in fact fake. No person on this earth can buy a Royal Blue Peanut for just around $300..Also, Ms. Coakley wrote to me after she received them, telling falsehoods such as "the mailman came today and knocked but, I was not home, I am hoping it was with your shipment" Now, Ms.Coakley had already signed for the package at this time, next, if not home, how did she hear him knock? At NO time did Ms. Coakley EVER come to me and let me know she was not happy with her purchase, while Ms Coakley was aware, clearly, that this was a Faux item, I still would have given her a refund without question, instead of contacting me first,she came her and other places saying I am a crook.

While the owner of this site may not like me I think they might agree that if you ever have a problem with an item, you should ALWAYS at least attempt to contact the seller to see what they would do.. At least let someone tell you to get lost before you decide they are just taking your money.

I would be most willing to forward over all e-mails I received from Ms.Coakley in this matter to show I acted promptly on each and every one of her countless e-mails and then you can decide whom is telling tales here.. now, as I would have from the start, I am going to take care of Ms Coakley, NOT that I did anything wrong, like she claimed since my ad was VERY clear that the item WAS Faux but, since I am trying to be as fair as I can. I have no problem with taking it back in fact, I already have a party whom would use this item exactly as I had intended, to show the public that fakes are out there and, to help make folks aware, this party is willing to sign an agreement that they will never attempt to re-sell the item as a real Royal Blue, and, for the record, I DID contact TY about this before and they never bothered to write back to me.I see no harm in my selling this item with the buyer knowing exactly what it is and, with the understanding that they would not attempt to pass it off as a fake, if one thinks about it, places such as Beanie Mom have obtained fakes before as well, this is where I got the idea of putting this thing to good use.

If anyone should desire information on where the Auction information is held or desires that I forward over the e-mails involved in this matter simply let me know. Folks, even if you see a person's name listed on these pages, atleast give the party the chance to handle a problem if one should arise, also, if you see a persons name here and have had a good deal with them, post it, let others know, like in my case, I did have some delays in shipping, due to personal problems which, should not have effected my shipments but, it did, I was wrong but I did take care of it, I gave refunds and or shipped out right away, whichever the party wanted. With two folks whom purchased used printers from me, they told me they had a problem, one party said the item would not work on his type of computer, I purchased hima new color inkjet to replace the color dot matrix printer he bought, I lost about $40 but, had a very happy customer, this man then shipped the old printer to another buyer that I had, when it arrived, she said it was damaged, no problem, I purchased HER a new color ink jet, she paid about $70 for the other, not a bad deal for her. I have had many good trades and, I do know that some of the folks I traded with have tried to contact this traders list to advise of my positve transactions but, those never seem to get mentioned.. One thing I think should be done here is, even if a party has had a bad deal in the past, this site should also publish any good trades the person has had, is there anyone out there whom, at some point in time in their life not had a problem? We all do, what is important is if the matter was handled or not, remember the old saying, "you can't please everyone" That does hold true.

I was told before, by Cindy to not submit things to her site anymore but, when I note that she continues to publish here about me and that her site does state that they welcome both sides of a story, I feel I have a certain right to stand up and tell my side.I also wanted to add that, the posting from Ms.Coakley was not mentioned to me by this web site, had they done what they claim they do, they would have learned the true facts of the matter. Thank You

Cindy's response to the last paragraph:

I have never told Mr. Mills not to submit anything here, I told him to stop harassing me. I can't submit his complaints to the Message board because he complained about his name being posted, and they won't allow me to post his name or email addresses there, or the board will be shut down.

The Instant Message board is a place to post complaints. We don't follow up on all the complaints posted on the message board unless someone emails us for some help. The complaints that put the people on the actual Caution list, were investigated first before their name was posted.  Mr. Mills included, as you can see from the emails below.

These are the emails Mark sent us regarding his first lawsuit threat:

Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:09:05 -0800
From: "Dr. Mark Mills PhD." <toysnmore@worldnet.att.net>

To whom it may concern:

It has been brought to my attention that your board has permitted slanderous
remarks about me to be place out for the public. The E-Mail address used for
me was Markrmills@aol.com by one Jeff Rance, on 3-3-98.

This matter has been handled by the Department of Justice, the Postmaster and
others. Mr. Rance ordered an item from me, it was sent to him two times,
insured mail.. Mr. Rance continued to complain that he had not received the
items however, we just received a copy of the signatory for the items, seems
Mr. Rance received BOTH orders AND tried to also obtain a refund.
I was NEVER contacted by ANY party regarding the use of my name, address nor
telephone number.

I will provide 24 hours for this information to be removed from your system
before I begin legal actions. Had anyone used ANY care, they would have wrote
to me before posting this false information and, I would have provided PROOF
of Mr. Rance's scams.

I still use the online address of Markrmills@aol.com and, should you desire,
I can forward copies of the multiple letters I sent to Mr.. Rance and, since
we are at it, perhaps I should include the DEATH threats this man left on my
answering machine.

The posting of my personal information without my consent is unlawful and,
shall receive swift action should it NOT be removed at once and, a FULL
retraction be posted by this online site.

Should you desire, feel free to call me, I will also pass along the names of
my attorney's, the same ones suing Mr. Rance at this time.

Sincerely,
Dr.. Mark R. Mills Ph.D..

To whom it may concern,

You were advised of the slanderous remarks you permitted on this web site
regarding myself, markrmills@aol.com by Jeff Rance of CompuServe. You ignored
the facts, you did not make an effort to correct your errors, I am filing suit
against you for the sum of $500,000.00 for Willful and reckless Defamation.
I have also made efforts to have this board shut down at once, I will do
whatever legal steps are required to shut this system down.

In the United States, we have laws. Laws for all. I did nothing wrong, I was
scammed by this man and YOU, without so much as taking an effort to find the
truth, slandered me. I shall not take that lightly,

Mark Mills

Hello,

First, I would like to thank you for responding to my concerns about the
comments made by Jeff Rance.. I have checked your system and found his
remarks were infact removed however, I did note that it seems Mr.. Rance
continues to place my name on the caution list, Mr. Rance seems to place my
name next to just about any AOL name he can find..

I did go into my system in efforts to forward to you copies of his most
rude letters however, most are in my file cabinet and can't be forwarded,
at least, I do not know how to do it, if you can, please provide a mailing
address and I will make hard copies and Fed Ex them to you, Mr. Rance also
replied to your letter, he again made all sorts of threats and became quite
abusive.

I could place Mr. Rance onto your system, rightfully however, I do not
desire for others to think it is simply retaliation..

Please let me know how we can have my name removed from the caution area,
where it is placed next to any old name he wants me to be,

Thanks,

Mark

Response from the Caution List:
To: toysnmore@worldnet.att.net <toysnmore@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Saturday, March 28, 1998 8:05 AM
Subject: Lawsuit

Dear Mark:

We are currently researching all the facts pertaining to your name being on the caution list. Please allow us some time to do that. I have just read your email tonight that was written yesterday informing me I have 24 hours to respond. I am a working mom and do not attend to my email every moment of the day. However, please be advised our disclaimer, which was written by a lawyer for our protection, clearly states this:

DISCLAIMER: This Caution List is posted as a service to users, (i.e. Beanie Traders and Collectors). Users will not libel/slander nor in any other way depict a person, company, entity, or service in a false light; should you do so, the legal consequences are yours alone. The Owner of this web page accepts no liability of legal consequences that arise from such posts (e.g. libel, slander, or other such crimes). All posted messages are the sole responsibility of their respective authors. Under no circumstances will the owner be held liable for any wrongdoings that occur from the usage of the guestbook with Caution Listings. If you see your name on this list and feel that it does not belong on this list, please send an explanation and details. We will post your information along with the original complaint.

I have just recently read your email dated March 27th. I have been trying to back track the dates and people concerned. We could not possibly have gotten back to you in the allotted time you stated yesterday as I just came to your letter written on March 26. The amount of email I receive is enormous and I try to get to each complaint as fast as humanly possible. We are simply moms trying to protect other moms. Therefore, as soon as we gather all the facts tonight, we will immediately get back to you. In the meantime, it would help us considerably if you could forward us correspondence you have had between this other person, jrance@compuserve.com. We encourage all parties to express their point of view.

We have also received a long complaint from a flame3@erols.com (Lonnie Best Wey) concerning problems with a deal with you. Please forward any correspondence you have had with this person as well. We urge you to post your side of the story on the instant caution page as soon as possible as well as stated on the web page.

Thank you. As soon as we can get our info together, we will immediately contact you.

Dear Mark:

I have removed your name from our caution list for the time being. After we do the necessary research, we will let you know of the results. Please understand that if there are legitimate complaints about any dealings you have had, the name will go back up. This is not in response to your legal threats, rather in response to your insistence you have done nothing wrong.

We are currently attempting to gather more information from the people who put your name in the instant caution list.

We will keep you informed as info comes our way as well as what information we receive from the people we have sent emails to.

This is our final response telling him we are putting his name back on the list:

To: toysnmore@worldnet.att.net <toysnmore@worldnet.att.net>
Date: April 8, 1998
Subject: Lawsuit

Dear Mark:

We have done extensive investigation into the alleged problems and complaints several people have sent to us concerning their dealings with you. We have also contacted Ebay and the Las Vegas Police Department. At this time, we have no choice but to place your name back on the Caution List.

Before you get angry and starting threatening lawsuits, let us discuss the law. We have given all information received to our lawyer who helps us in legal matters concerning the Caution List. The definition of slander is: a malicious, FALSE, defamatory statement or report. We have enough hard copy information and evidence to prove that you did indeed have some very bad dealings with the people who reported you. If you wish to proceed on your lawsuit, please feel free to do so as our lawyer would be extremely happy to file a countersuit. We also would suggest that you recheck your understanding of what slander and libel is. The information we have received is true and confirmed, maliciousness is not intended. Our Caution list is maintained in order to protect the innocent beanie baby buying public from people who do not fulfill their part of the trade or monetary promises. Only the truth is reported after it has been substantiated. This has been done in a fair and unbiased manner. We do not know you personally or any of the other individuals involved.

If you would like to make a response to the people who have filed complaints against you, we will be happy to make a separate web page for you to respond. Please be aware that this page will contain the emails from the people who reported their problems in dealing with you and then your response. The fact that you have been suspended from Ebay and that you are currently under investigation by the Las Vegas Police Department will also be stated. It is your right to present your side of the story but it is also the right of the other people involved to present their side. In situations that are as complicated and difficult as this one, we always give this option to the person whose name will appear on the Caution List.

We understand that you have finally resolved several problems, however,it has been with great duress and difficulty. As of this date, we have not received word from Jeff Rance that his issues with you have been rectified.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact us.

Thank you.

After we sent this letter in April, we have not heard from him until recently. Mr. Mills is welcome to comment on any of these complaints, and we will post his response to them.

Dear Moderator of InsideTheWeb message board:

We have received complaints from Mr. Mark Mills of Toysnmore Co. regarding certain postings on your message board. The messages that were the source of complaints have been deleted.

In the future, please do not post or approve messages containing or referring to the following names and/or email addresses:

Toysnmore
Mark Mills
Bnibaby@aol.com
Dpugh28003@aol.com
markrmills@aol.com
mellisamls@aol.com
videoa7466@aol.com

New email address: crazyaboutbeanies@prodigy.net

Failure to comply with this request will result in removal of this board and/or other boards causing related problems with the same parties.

We realize you may disagree with Mr. Mills' complaints; however, we cannot serve as arbitrators in this matter.

Disputes such as this are against InsideTheWeb content policies and are, in and of themselves, grounds for deletion of a board.

-----

He again complained to InsideTheWeb because of the lawsuit notes still being commented about. I received a final notice not to post any complaints about Mr. Mills on the message board. I may be in search of a new board to use.

Response from:  Toysnmore@worldnet.att.net
Thursday, 23-Jul-98 14:08:42

Hacker and Extortion

Reader's, I would like to bring to the attention of all that I recently received an e-mail from a person whom basically details themselves as a hacker..   They told me that theywere the ones whom shut down the TY page and, This Trader's List.. They mentioned that they knew I was having a dispute with this trader's list and, that for a fee, they would go into the system and detroy it as well as the TY page, they mentioned that the "fee" or, extrotion as I consider it, would be higher then I might suspect.

When I received this e-mail, not only did I find it most diisturbing, I also attempted to forward it over to the webmaster of this site right away, I have noticed that I had mis-directed the forwarded e-mail but, have since forwarded this over to them properly.

I know I have been labeled as many a things on this system but, I would NEVER deal with such a person and, felt it was only fair to try and HELP this listing by sending the e-mail to them so they could try and tell where it came from..

I am asking that this message be posted along with the other things Cindy has felt she had a right to post about me and, ask that if anyone knows how I can post the e-mail I received from this party onto this system, that they would please e-mail me and let me know.

While I dis-agree with this system, I do not feel it is proper to destroy ones web site, for any reason and, would be most willing to help in the prosecution of this party.

I have also received an e-mail from a party whom "congatulated" me for posting nude pictures onto this system which, I expressly deny doing. Some have made comments of how poorly I write and, if you think about it, If I do have problems with typo's and such, how would I ever figure out how to hack into something.

I also advised this system that during the time this junk was being done, my ISP was down, and we also forwarded over a letter from our ISP advising that a hacker had infact comprimised OUR system and, they had shut it down. It took a couple of days to get my service corrected.   Also, this Shoesfall party, I have once again made contact with them and asked that they forward over to me a copy of the front AND back of the money order they claim I cashed and stole from them, in the past, they never complied. I have now received a reply from them, calling me a liar and a thief and so on, all I did was ask them to forward a copy to me so I could handle this matter if infact an error had been made, all they wanted to do is insult me... I am still awaiting a reply from them now and, would most gladly forward the e-mails to and from them to Cindy so she can see how she can have them posted up here, if you want a fair system, then you really must hear BOTH sides.. I have already admitted I did have some delays before due to personal problems but, they were taken care of. I have had others contact this site and tell them of good trades yet, none of that ever appears here.  

I know Cindy cannot post on inside the web BUT she can surely post the GOOD trades I have had on this page she has made for me.. Would that not only be fair? Remember "the first amongst us without sin shall cast the first stone" we have ALL had problems, what is MORE important is how they were handled.

The party whom claims I cheated her on the Royal Blue's, she purchased them KNOWING they were FAUX as thead CLEARLY showed.. I did nothing wrong,she has since told me she has been trying to have her comments removed from this sytem, true or not, I don't know but, I will also forward over copies of her e-mails to anyone whom desires them and, send them links to the auction she bid on which, shows she knew they were fakes. Thank You

MARK MILLS ON SEPT 2 1998 I WON AN AUCTION ON UP4SALE OF PEACE AND VALENTINO I SENT MY MONEY ORDER OUT HERE IT IS NOW OCT 12 AND I STILL HAVE NOT SEEN MY BEANIES ALL HE KEEPS GIVING MEIS EXCUSES HE HAS MY MONEY I HAVE NOTHING I PUT A NEGATIVE VOTE ON HIM HE NOW PUT ONE ON ME SAYING I WAS A LOSER HE IS THE ONE TAKING MONEY FROM PEOPLE AND GIVING THEM NOTHING I HAVE CONTACTED THE U.S. POSTAL AUTHORITIES TO FILE MAIL FRAUD CHARGES I SENT HIM A POSTAL MONEY ORDER SO THEY CAN GET INVOLVED. I RECOMEND NOT TO BID OR BUY ANYTHING FROM THIS MAN. HE GOES BY THE NAME TOYSNMORE@LVCM.COM USES THE NAME FORSALE ON UP4SALE AUCTION LIST.

I won peace bear and valentino bear for the sum $26.00 dollars plus $3.00 postage i sent him a postal money order he has been the one answering the e-mails but the money order was mailed to this address:
Deena Mills  3650 S.Decatur    LasVegas, Nv 89103
I did leave a negative comment about him on his ratings page didn't take long for him to blast me he called me a loser my reply was hes the loser and that people should read the bad trade list before buying from him i wished i knew about the list sooner would new gotten mixed up with this bad egg.

October 21, 1998
Update From: PAULETTEK1@worldnet.att.net

just to let you know i finally got my beanies from him he sent a free one which i mailed back to him on tuesday 10\20 i emailed him that i would not change my negative vote that it would stand now he is threatening me by saying if i don't return the other beanies he will file mail fraud charges aginst me.

Response From Mark Mills  - Toysnmore@lvcm.com
October 15, 1998

I sold to known Faux Royal blue Peanuts to Jeni coakley AKA etrialsmud@aol.com. Ms. coakley ranted a raved that I ripped her off when I did not. the ad was VERY clear also had conditions of sale to those ONLY without intent to re-sell as real R.b's.. ms coakley was given a refund yet, never returned my products.. She gave excuse after excuse and now, tells me to get lost. This is why folks get weary of refunds and such. I never intended anything wrong, sold them as known fakes and yet,got a bad name for it then, lost not only my product but, the money. Etrialsmud@aol.com MUST be placed upon the listing. as for Paulette. as she was told, I THOUGHT her M.O. came in but was not sure since my wife went out of town and had it. It turned out it was NOT hers and that she sent it to the WRONG place. I have tried many times to contact this woman yet, to no avail. I can ship her items now that the money came in or, return the uncashed M.O.'s which, for the record, I accept ONLY postal money orders, it was a lie that SHE decided to pay that way, she ad no choice. I did NOTHING wrong except for deal with someone whom is quite vindictive. This should be posted along with her complaint to help folks see the truth behind it. I have had problems in the PAST which I explained but, this listing now brings me folks who try to extort money from me and ect.. If a party made a mistake and corrected it, this board should be more then willing to take things off. My God, how long to we hold grudges for, lifetime, we have ALL had problems. my record on Up4sale has been fine uptil now and, even that is being handled. I told this lady I THOUGHT it was her MO that came in, it was not, she sent it to the wrong place but, thats makes me a bad guy huh? NOT FAIR And as for Jeni coakley, I can submit ALL her e-mails to you, which show she KNEW she was buying fakes then, screwed me, thanks to THIS board.. Let's all see if THAT makes the boards or not. If I were out to cheat folks, when I switched ISP's why did I NOT change my name? Would only make sense and, as for this crazyaboutbeanies thing, that has nothing to do with me either. I just get whatever name those feel like giving me.

Complaint filed by: MarTar@aol.com

I ordered a Wingless Quackers ($1815.00) and received a current one with half his wings hacked off. This was in mid-February he was suppossed to send it Express, but that never happened. I didn't receive the phony beanie until several days or weeks later. I was the one who started to find everyone and the investgation began. I was working with "Melissa". He even set up PAYMENT INSTALLMENTS WITH ME! We had the dates and everything. I do have all of the mail still left.  I still have around 15-20 people who are STILL out their money. It just isn't as much as mine. I was on CBS This Morning on a show about him, and fraud. If you have had problems with him, please contact me.

The Associated Press
January 30, 1999

On-Line auction customers are left to protect themselves from fraud
By JOHN HENDREN

AP National Writer

NEW YORK (AP) _ When Sotheby's sold a Harry S. Truman signature that turned out to be a reproduction, the prestigious auction house apologized and bought it back.

On the explosive frontier of Internet auctions, the policy is different: bidder beware.

Toy collector Christina Platthy says she found out too late _ after paying $1,815 for a rare Beanie Baby she bought in an eBay Web site auction and getting a $5 stuffed duck instead. The rapid, raucous popularity of Internet auction houses has left consumers prey to cyber-scams and emerging companies like eBay struggling to prevent a new kind of fraud. The company, founded in 1995 by Pierre Omidyar in San Jose, Calif. to sell his girlfriend's Pez dispensers, is the most famous of the online auctioneers, but it has no less than 1,500 rivals. Auction houses say they can't be forced to protect consumers against bogus buys, any more than a newspaper can be held responsible for the claims of its classified advertisers. "I think from a legal point of view we have no liability," said eBay CEO Meg Whitman. However, she added, "We actually have a significant responsibility to make eBay as safe a site as possible to trade on. We also need to communicate that users have a responsibility as well." Whitman says fraud is exceptionally rare among its 1 million users less than 1/100th of 1 percent of its 700,000 daily auctions. But, many users report their problems elsewhere. The National Consumers League gets 600 complaints a month about Internet fraud. Two out of three are auction fraud cases.

As the largest auction house, eBay has had its share of mishaps. Pennsylvanian Jamison Piatt was turned in by angry buyers who never got the Furby toys he promised. He's agreed to repay them $3,600. Bidders aren't always honest either. Some offered up to $200,000 for a "Today" show jacket signed by host Katie Couric. After bogus bids were ferreted out, the jacket sold for $11,400. Starting next month, deadbeat bidders will be suspended from eBay.  

The problems may stem in part from the industry's stratospheric growth. Market researcher Jupiter Communications estimates that the number of Internet auction customers will jump nearly sixfold from 1.2 million to 6.5 million by 2000, when they will spend about $7.1 billion. For eBay, sales grew 724 percent in 1998, to $47.4 million.  As the industry grows, so does fraud. Cyber-scams are prevalent enough that Manhattan attorney Brian Brokate has a full-time staff tracking online knockoffs of luxury goods made by clients such as Rolex and Vuitton.

New York City is trying to hold online auction houses accountable.  The city's Department of Consumer Affairs said last week it is looking into whether some eBay sellers are falsely labeling baseballs supposedly signed by such legends as Babe Ruth and Roberto Clemente, as "one-of-a-kind." Ms. Whitman says eBay's glad to cooperate, even though the city hasn't notified eBay of the probe.  

In an acknowledgment that fraud is a problem, eBay said earlier this month it would guarantee items from $25 to $200. That doesn't help high bidders like Ms. Platthy.  She says she paid for a rare "Quackers" Beanie manufactured without wings, but got a cheaper version with the wings obviously cut off. Seller Mark R. Mills of Las Vegas, who was ejected from eBay last year, responds: "She got what she paid for."   Ms. Platthy wants New York officials to force eBay to vouch for its sellers. "I'm glad that they're trying to crack down on them," she said, adding that Mills didn't give her his real name. "The person I was dealing with did not exist. That's what irritates me about eBay. They don't check anything."

The best way for auction house customers to protect themselves is to use an escrow service that will hold onto their check until the auctioned item is received in good condition, said eBay's Ms. Whitman. The company makes that easy by offering online links to escrow companies. The catch: a 5 percent fee. "Eighteen-hundred dollars is a lot of money and using escrow is probably a pretty smart thing to do when you are dealing with that kind of money," Ms. Whitman said.

Brokate concedes that online auctioneers probably can't be held legally responsible unless they're informed of a specific fraud and refuse to act. He said eBay has been quick to help so far. Two traditional auction houses could shake up the industry with their plans to go online later this year.

Sotheby's says its items will be guaranteed and its rival Christie's is expected to follow suit. "We believe that a collector ... needs to have the assurance that experts have properly assessed what is being sold and that that item is being guaranteed," said David Redden, executive vice president of Sotheby's.

I was taken by these scammers back in February, 1998. We had a trade set up for my 4 righties, 4 lefties, and 4 libearties for her/his nana and fine mane derby. I fell for their offer to arrange shipping through Airborne. Airborne came to my house to pick up the package containing the 12 american trio pieces. $4,000 worth of insurance was obtained by me. I kept the claim slip, and the package was taken away. The next day, Mark Mills/Deena Pugh claimed that the package was not delivered to their business called Clean Sweep in Las Vegas, Nevada. I filed a claim with Airborne to find that they had also filed a claim with Airborne. Not only did they steal my merchandise, but they were trying to also scam Airborne for insurance money (even though I held the claim ticket). Airborne said they dropped off the package at the business Clean Sweep and left it there, because no one was there to accept it. Clean Sweep will not pay me for the insurance on the package. I feel scammed by both the Mills/Pughs and by Airborne. Debbie White

Now, we must also ask ourselves one question here, if this lady did as asked and required a signature, why then did they not obtain one? OR is it possible that this package never made it to us? Who is to even say what was inside the carton.. Only Ms White truly knows. I cannot see how she can claim we cheated her or that Airborne Express cheated her, she claims she lost on the cost of insurance. That is a joke. I was billed for the shipment and the insurance, NOT her. Normally, the party whom is being billed for a shipment is the party whom files the claims which, we did for this matter.

If ANYONE was a loser in this deal, it was me. I paid overnight shipping and for $4000 in insurance and, received NOTHING. Of note should also be the FACT that Airborne Express's FRAUD unit has been advised of Ms White's OVER insurance and, claim for MORE then the true value.. Nothing was ever done wrong in this matter. Ms White claims she sent us these items, who knows, maybe she did, maybe she sent us rocks.. The FACTS are this:

1. Ariborne Express did not get a signature for deleivery
2. We paid for the shipment and received nothing,
3. We were never re-paid <with the extra insurance money she stole.> for the cost WE had to pay.
4. We never obtained any repayment for the insurance cost WE paid.
5. Ms White did NOT require a signature on the package as we told her to do..
6. Ms White is under investigation for insurance fraud for collecting insurance in excess of true market value.
7. This complaint by Ms White is fully without merit. she suffered NO loss, we were the ones to have suffered a loss. She was contacted by MarTar whom is known to this system to sell fakes.   Thanks and, should anyone desire more info about Ms White, feel free to contact me. I should also note that I have taken the liberty of advising Airborne Express that Ms. White claims they cheated her here on this site, what actions if any they shall take are up tot hem, not me.

July 19, 2001
Complaint filed by: joel

   traders_name: Mark Mills

Seller posted a few million dollars worth of merchandise on Tradeout.com -- a business to business auction site about 2 and half weeks ago.  Merchandise included Bose Wave Radios, HP N6395 1GHZ Laptops, Bose Lifestyle 50 Systems, Canon XL1 cameras and a host of other items such as compact flash cards, cheap digital cameras, and metal detectors etc etc.  Everything seemed very legitimate however after my wire for 7221.20 went through, this guy stopped emailing and wouldn't return calls, and cancelled the credit card he had on file with Tradeout so he could not be traced and basically stole my money along with countless others who bid and wired money. We believe the total is somewhere near $500,000 or more that he has taken from business people like myself thus far on Tradeout alone.  We also found out that all the addresses used were fakes and we believe he is using a fake name among other things. There is an investigation pending however I am posting here to warn anyone about this Mark Mills / Electronics Liquidators scam. We had linked him to Ebay as well and now know the range of this scam is much larger with hundreds and possibly thousands of people who have been taken, albeit for smaller amounts than what we all just lost on Tradeout.   Any information regarding this Mark Mills and his partner Jeff (although we are not sure there is really a Jeff) doing business as Electronic Liquidators with email sales@liquidation.zzn.com or possibly others would be useful in catching this individual and putting him behind bars for good.  We believe he may be hiding in either the state of Nevada, California, Florida, or Baja Mexico and possibly deeper in Mexico... I personally will reward anyone who comes up with information leading to an arrest with $500. It's not much but I'm out most of my money and I'm small guy however I will not give up until he is brought to justice and am working daily on this matter.  After reading some material on your site about a Mark Mills back in '98, I am not sure it is the same person/persons because it seems to be a copycat scam of sorts using the same name however it may turn out to be the same. Any of you who know anything about this guy/scam and may have information that we can link to this current scam would be highly appreciated. Thank you for your time and do not trust anyone. This guy is slick and believable. He has zillions of fake #'s and private mailboxes. If a seller does not give a physical address or even if they do provide one (could be a fake one as in our case), do your due diligence and don't end up like me and the others. Never wire money to strangers. That's obvious but scammers can convince you otherwise and work on your greed and get you to do things you otherwise wouldn't do.  Thank you for your time and for this valuable service. I wish I had known about this board in advance and had read the information about the Mark Mills scams that have been around for awhile.   Sincerely,   -Joel A    

Hello All my new friends! Yes, you can add me to the list of trusting peolple who were just trying to make a living and fell victim to this scumbag. I personally am out $2700.00 + another $2500.00 that I went in on with a partner. He will be added soon. I like many of you feel very foolish about this. I have been doing internet sales for over 2 years now and have never come close to anything like this. Yes I've heard about it, but never had it happen....until now! Please feel free to e-mail me any time. I know for myself, it's nice to talk to other people going through this. I must say, I'm very happy to have link up with Joel.Let stay together on this, and maybe we can see some justice done! All the best to my new friends!  John

Everyone please say hello to Michael Brady of Missouri who I have spoken with tonight on the phone and he told me his story which of course is extremely similar to ours. As you can imagine he is embarrassed to have come forward as we all are embarrassed to have been scammed so blatantly by Mark Mills / Electronics Liquidators. As you know, there of course are others out there who will soon come forward as well and we will see the extent of the unnecessary catastrophe that has occurred here on Tradeout.com. The new updated totals for our total loss to Mark Mills are as follows including Mr. Brady:    
8239 Scott Jones and Bill Sheppard of Kansas
7221 Joel A of Illinois
3099 Jeffrey Krintzman of Nevada
488 Tae Chung of California
2700 John Dewar of Canada
4297 Gord Baker and John Dewar of Canada
1300 Eric Nyce of Pennsylvania
1000 Mark Hritz of Pennsylvania
2800 Charles Geller of Indiana
7305 Michael Brady of Missouri (OUR NEW MEMBER WELCOME)

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$38,449  total

And of course unfornately we believe there are many more to come as we find others coming forward and realizing that they have been the victims of Mark Mills / Electronics Liquidators. Please feel free to welcome Michael and email him as of course we all need encouragement here and the best way is to talk to one another. I will be talking to a very good federal lawyer tomorrow here in Chicago that was referred to me by my lawyer and I will of course update you on whether he wants to take this case on a contingency basis. Michael, this is what we need from you and anyone else who gets cheated:

1) Please file your complaint with the FBI at the internet fraud complaint center/FBI at http://www.ifccfbi.com and then you will receive an email with your complaint # and an attachment pdf file which contains your complaint. Save that file onto your hard disk and then reattach it to a new email to me.

2) Forward all emails from Mark Mills/Electronics liquidators and Tradeout as well as any other evidence and pertinent information you have from your recollection about your communications with him up until you lost contact

3) I will need a copy of your wire receipt for your wire transfer as well as a detailed list of your order with him

4) You need to go into your bank (no matter how embarrassing it may be) and tell your banker that you need to start an investigation on the wire that you sent because you have been defrauded by this guy

For those of you who have yet to send in your ifccfbi.gov complaints to me, make sure you do so (Eric and Mark and Gord). The rest of you are good to go. The reason we need these is many fold. #1 it alerts the FBI to our case which is now growing substantial enough for them to put the manpower out there to get him. #2 we need all documents here for the lawyer I have lined up #3 when/if Mark Mills is caught this evidence is crucial to our case

I will of course update all of you on new developments and look forward as much as all of you to a quick and swift resolution to this ordeal which is a very unfornate set of circumstances for all of us who got taken here by this subhuman individual who obviously has not a shred of decency or morality to his name.

Thank you. It has been another very productive day in our quest for restitution here. I feel very confident we will resolve this matter in the best interests of all involved and in the shortest amount of time possible. Please email Kimberly Blair at tradeout to release more names. We need to uncover this disaster here and have everyone accounted for.  Sincerely, -Joel A

Hello again everyone: Here's a quick update. As you know we added another victim to our list yesterday. Here are the victims and totals thus far in order of amount lost to Mills. I will approximate values here to the nearest dollar value to make it easier on myself so I don't have to look in everyone's file here again for exact values.

$8300 Scott and Bill
$7300 Michael Brady
$7300 Joel
$4300 Gord and John D
$3100 Jeff
$2800 Charles
$2800 John D
$1300 Eric
$1000 Mark
$850 Jim
$500 Tae

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Total Victims: 12

Amount Lost: approx $40,000

Let me know if I have made any errors here. Anyone who hasn't completed their files with all the necessary information please do so. Also Jim please file that Postal Inspector form for mail fraud as I requested so that we can hopefully get them involved on this as well.

When Mr. Mills is caught, he will be charged with X # of counts of wire fraud and X # of counts of mail fraud as well as internet fraud and also for his crimes back in '98 with beanies and who knows what else he has done?? Each charge carries a sentence to it making his possible jail time much much longer and therefore chances of probation longer and so we are all looking to put him away for as long as possible. Our collection of evidence here is crucial after he is arrested in order to get a swift conviction on him and severe punishment.  Thank you everyone.  Remember if any of you want to talk or need anything, call/email/fax me anytime.  Sincerely,

-Joel